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>Revisiting Huffington Post and Stagliano’s piece: Doybia thinks 21,000 people a year with paralytic polio no big deal

December 10, 2009

>Several days ago, I was taken to task by Doybia for a comment I made that if she’d had polio, she’d have known it. She quoted prominently from the CDC’s Pink book’s chapter on polio, and she asks why so few were struck down with clinical polio. Only about one percent of cases get paralytic polio. So few people, according to Doybia, that vaccination is unnecessary. I’ve been busy, so I’ve just now had the chance to revisit this subject. Much of what Doybia has written has been off mark on this and she has been highly selective in her quotes.

From the text she quotes: “These epidemics became increasingly severe, and the average age of persons affected rose. The increasingly older age of persons with primary infection increased both the disease severity and number of deaths from polio. Polio reached a peak in the United States in 1952, with more than 21,000 paralytic cases. However, following introduction of effective vaccines, polio incidence declined rapidly. The last case of wild-virus polio acquired in the United States was in 1979, and global polio eradication may be achieved within the next decade.”

21,000 cases of paralytic polio a year, with fatality rates from these cases varying from 2 to 5% for kids, to 15-30 % for adults up to 25-75%. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/polio.pdf

No big deal, right, Doybia?

Really? You downplayed consistently the sheer number of people impacted. You wrote that you and your family got through it all fine, had it and never knew. You wrote that you are an anti-vaxxer and that these illnesses can be prevented and cared for without vaccines.

You presented only the information that bolstered your contentions and left out the very relevant data on the sheer number of people (regardless of the overall low rate compared to the total number) of people who suffered, who were disabled for life, who died. You did indeed imply it was no big deal repeatedly.

21,000 with paralytic polio in 1952 at its peak according to the CDC. That’s your 1%. That means about 190,000 folks that year walked away from polio unharmed, but 21,000 did not. “At the height of the polio epidemic in 1952, nearly 60,000 cases with more than 3,000 deaths were reported in the United States alone.” http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/polio.html

Interesting is your contention that you are anti-vaccine despite being aware of the numbers. After all, you read the CDC’s pink book, so you know your stuff, right?

Doybia responds:

“Um. I didn’t actually say that polio was no big deal.

I said that it was an urban myth that polio always caused paralysis or death. I was correct. I’m still correct.

And I’m still very, very, very puzzled that no scientists ever seem to have tried to figure out why some people got very sick and paralyzed and most did not. What caused the susceptibility? And this is still a problem. In India, polio vaccines are given very intensively, dose after dose and kids are still coming down with polio. Why? What is the factor which makes them vulnerable despite the vaccination.

Finally, are you aware of the difference between the live and inactivated polio vaccines? The live vaccine can provide, eventually, herd immunity. The inactivated version does not. This means that polio could spread through the U.S. in spite of heavy vaccination. The virus can replicate in the digestive tract of people who have been vaccinated with the dead version of the vaccine. Since the vaccine isn’t, as you all are always saying, 100% effective, if there is an outbreak in the U.S. it won’t necessarily be due to the unvaccinat­ed…

Interesting, ain’t it?”

My response:

Really? You downplayed consistently the sheer number of people impacted. You wrote that you and your family got through it all fine, had it and never knew. You wrote that you are an anti-vaxxer and that these illnesses can be prevented and cared for without vaccines.

You presented only the information that bolstered your contentions and left out the very relevant data on the sheer number of people (regardless of the overall low rate compared to the total number) of people who suffered, who were disabled for life, who died. You did indeed imply it was no big deal repeatedly.

21,000 with paralytic polio in 1952 at its peak according to the CDC. That’s your 1%. That means about 190,000 folks that year walked away from polio unharmed, but 21,000 did not. “At the height of the polio epidemic in 1952, nearly 60,000 cases with more than 3,000 deaths were reported in the United States alone.” http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/polio.html

Interesting is your contention that you are anti-vaccine despite being aware of the numbers. After all, you read the CDC’s pink book, so you know your stuff, right?

And now you shift your position a bit and, I’ve got to tell you, I think your information in this above post is wrong. Live vaccine the virus is shed in fecal matter. And that’s just one error.

She’s got more errors than that, but it will wait for tomorrow.

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4 Comments
  1. December 10, 2009 7:55 pm

    >There was an excellent documentary on Nova on polio about six months ago. It said polio surged in the US in the 1930s as public sanitation and general living conditions improved. Also, prior to 1951, the gov't didn't differentiate between paralytic and non-paralytic polio in its record keeping.

  2. December 10, 2009 8:47 pm

    >And add in this bit here from that Pink book on page 234: "Boosting of immunity from natural exposure became more infrequent and the number of susceptible persons accumulated, ultimately resulting in the occurrence of epidemics, with 13,000 to 20,000 paralytic cases reported annually. In the early vaccine era, the incidence dramatically decreased after the introduction of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) in 1955. The decline continued following oral polio vaccine (OPV) introduction in 1961. In 1960, a total of 2,525 paralytic cases were reported, compared with 61 in 1965." Completely doesn't jibe with this that Doybia says, nope: "Well, we get to the next point, which is that polio went up and down in waves. Why, you ask?Because millions of people got the usual mild cases and became immune.And we also come to another point, which is that millions of people got polio so mild they never knew they had it. So, here is the big question, why is polio so dangerous for a very small group and so mild in most of the population? What is the vulnerability? If this vulnerability could be discovered, it would perhaps, be easy to prevent paralytic polio without widespread vaccination." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-stagliano/dr-paul-offit-pope-of-the_b_329919.html?show_comment_id=35784508#comment_35784508Reckon ya can add Doybia ta her dumbass buddies John Stone and CHS.My word verification: dicrism. Must be when you criticize a dickhead. Uh-huh.

  3. December 10, 2009 9:39 pm

    >For a truly surreal moment, check this out:Geier, M., & Geier, D. (2002). THE STATE OF POLIO VACCINATION IN THE WORLD: THE CASE FOR CONTINUING ROUTINE VACCINATION. Toxicology Mechanisms and Methods, 12(3), 221-228. Retrieved from E-Journals database.They conclude that polio vaccination is a must."Despite all of the problems with polio vaccination, there can beno doubt that over all, polio vaccination has done far more good thanharm. It has been estimated that between 1965 and 1984, the use ofpolio vaccine has prevented 5 million cases of paralytic polio." p 223"Therefore, it wouldseem prudent to continue to routinely vaccinate all individuals with killed polio vaccine until all the people who have had the disease or who have been vaccinated with live polio vaccine have died. Considering humans’ rapidly increasing life spans, this interim waiting period, duringwhich coverage with killed polio vaccine should be provided, might be 150 years or more. It should be kept in mind, too, that because the poliovirus is spread via the fecal route, a very small number of people who are shedding the virus are potentially capable of causing a rapid and widespread epidemic of the disease. The current state of medical knowledge does not include any treatment that can prevent the crippling paralysis the disease can cause."

  4. December 10, 2009 9:44 pm

    >So the Geiers are part of the conspiracy, too!

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